Size, Distance, Setting

Christine: Good morning, hi, how are you?

Tom: I'm very good. How are you?

Christine: I'm doing well. Thanks. I'm glad you're here.

Tom: Yes. Likewise. Likewise.

Christine: Yeah, it was a, it was really a circus for me there for a while.

I'm surprised that I survived it, but I'm really glad that I did it. It was worth

Tom: doing. What did you come away with your greatest aha moments?

Christine: So I wanted to show you this book. I don't know. Have you ever heard of this book?

Tom: No,

Christine: I had never heard of it either until I did this practicum and the woman who was my supervisor told me that she really liked it.

And, like I wrote a book on writing your college application essay and there's things about this book that I like even better than my own book. One of the things that I really like about it is the premise works. And I'll say this about my book too. The premise in my book works, whether you're applying to college or writing a business email, it still works.

And that's what I, that's what I really like about this book is I took it to some of my networking groups and told them about how to use the principles of this to create your soundbite about what it is that you do, whether you're a or a bookkeeper. Or, a college admissions officer, it doesn't matter the principles apply,

so the woman who wrote it was a former admissions officer I think she was at UPenn. And she's, it sounds to me from her book that she's trying to do what we're trying to do now and just help the broader base of students but there were a couple of things in there that I used with students this year that I'll be curious to see if it makes a difference.

Like one of them was don't write your main Common App essay about what you want to study. Use your main common app essay to show us something about you that we don't know and then use your supplementals to do the deeper dive into why you want to study what you want to study. And I thought that was good advice.

Tom: Yeah. And that, that flows with the college applications from the standpoint of the school section, when the school is asking why you were interested in the major or your academic interests. And yeah, that's exactly.

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. That's right.

Tom: The why the academic, the why the college, and then for those that have other esoteric type questions or bizarre questions what's your favorite playlist and that kind of stuff you just have fun with.

But yes, your college essay is as I tell students when I'm working with them, it's a personal, it's a story about yourself as a person. It's a story about something you've encountered. It's. It's not something you want to

Christine: never find anywhere else in your application, and it's not going to show up on your transcripts,

Tom: unless you've had a one on one with someone they don't know you from Adam.

So use it as an opportunity to expose the way you think the way you articulate something. Don't get too political you're not curing cancer with your college essay. You're telling someone who you're educating someone, you're exposing someone to who you are, and I think that once a student figures that out, it's easier to write the essay.

Some still struggle. It becomes, make it personal. It's easier that way.

Christine: I think the big struggle with most students is this is the first time in the narrative rhetorical mode. They're uncomfortable writing in that direction. They've never done it before. They're used to writing their five-point hamburger essays where the first person's not allowed.

 I don't let my students use the word "you" in their essays, because I don't want you to speak for anybody but yourself, because you don't know who your reader is going to be. And you don't know if your truth is going to be your reader's truth. If you're owning it, then you don't run the risk of offending or alienating your reader.

But if you're telling them how they think or feel, then you run that risk. And they've never written in the first person. And so they're really uncomfortable with that.

Tom: And the same applies as adults. Same applies, for us, when we're writing things about content. , I changed or still try to change the way I approach it and I'm writing as if I was a parent reading it and what I want to learn and I do write it, it's my own, it's my own opinion.

So you can always put that at the end of your document, this is my own opinion. If you want to share yours, give me a call.

Christine: That's another thing their high school teachers are telling them is know your audience. And that's what you're talking about. You got to know your audience.

If you're writing, what do parents wish they had known? That's different. what do I think parents should, should do.

Tom: They don't, I still have students who, will say that, An educator in their school system, told them that they need to have a hook in their first paragraph.

They need to have, a hook at the end. And most of the times, that turns into BS on the part of the student when they're writing it, as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, I

Christine: don't call it a hook. I stole a term from the newsroom, and I call it a lead. It's L-E-D-E, and I like that better. But one of the things, okay, I students are and this didn't happen. This isn't a practicum takeaway, but I did have a student this year who wrote an essay and did exactly what students do, which is bury the lead. The next to last paragraph was, his parents dropped him off at the wrong birthday party when he was in elementary school. And they came back hours later to pick him up, and he had just spent all this time as an elementary kid at a party with a bunch of kids he didn't know. And the dad came out and told his dad, hey, we didn't know your son until today, but he had a great time and we really enjoyed having him here.

What college would not want this kid on their campus? I think it is one of the coolest stories I've read all year.

Tom: Yeah. And that's, yeah, you've got to introduce the reader to what your I guess the lead or the hook or your, you got to layer it in. Yeah. Yeah.

Christine: Yeah.

Tom: That starts with, why are you writing about what you write about? And it can be dramatic. It can be simple.

Christine: It can be very basic.

Yeah. It doesn't have to be the most catastrophic or the most unique or the most, any adjective story. It just has to be what happened to you that, that illustrates who you are. That's a sliver of who you've become.

Tom: Yeah, so that, that along with students making the opt trying to make the attempt to meet with admissions people and talk to them, or at least email them so that there's a little bit more than just an application stuck against the wall.

It is a way for them to go and for us. It's a way to separate some of the services and practices that we use that are not being used in the current school systems. .

Christine: Yeah. So another big takeaway that I had was I met an actual high flyer. And so we've talked about some of this before where, a lot of students back when I was applying to college, only 30 percent of college applicants had, 4.0s. Now it's, it hovers much higher. It's somewhere between 70 and 80, I think. And so there's a lot of students out there who are 4.0s. They've got 34, 35, 36 is on their ACTs. They've got a 1530 on their SAT. They've got, all these things, but. In addition to all of that, and they and the rigor from their high school like they took what was available, they took the classes that were available and they got good grades.

 A lot of kids come to you in there. I founded this club. I founded the, whatever club at my high school or whatever it was that they did.

But this kid, I did not know this about him until I was helping him with his essays. And whenever this kid is in Virginia. And whenever I have Virginia kids, I always start with Virginia Tech, because I think, Virginia Tech does a really good job with their prompts of drawing out interesting topics to write about.

So this student writes about how the 2024, this year's Virginia Tech drone racing team won the national championship with the drone that he engineered and designed. Wow. And I was like, I don't know that I will ever meet another student who can top this story. I

Tom: hope he's got a patent on it.

Christine: I, so drone pilots come to him and say, Hey, can you make a drone that does this?

Can you make a drone that does this? And he's yeah, I could do that. And so he did. And that team used his drone. And I just thought that was the greatest thing ever.

Tom: Yeah. I hope he's applying to MIT.

Christine: His, he's applying to a lot of schools. You'll be very happy to hear that he's he's got a really diversified, rounded list of schools.

He's got a good head on his shoulders.

Tom: That's great, because it's also something that, you know, Anytime that we can try to help students bring forward some of the things that they've done from a project standpoint or research standpoint, even if it's rudimentary, it's no different than having, or it's very equal to having an art portfolio or a design portfolio that you're presenting for that specialty, because they're looking, I had a student this year that wants to go into architecture, architectural design and I said, fine, let's do that.

While my portfolio is elementary, I said that's fine because that's what they want to see. They want to see your elementary work to see if you have the potential to, to grow, so his work there sets them apart. And when you're in that level, you call them a high five, a high flyer.

They've got to have that. That's going to separate them from the rest.

Christine: Yeah,

Tom: so many 4. 0 is out there doing their thing.

Christine: Yeah. And when parents come to me and say, I've got this high flyer, I've got this great kid. The thing is that what they, what the parents don't always understand is that there's other kids out there.

And it's not just about the school that you're trying to get into. It's who are the other applicants. Right now. And who's, who was also in that pool. And there may be, some of these kids are doing things that are different from what your student's doing. That's another huge takeaway that I got from doing this is that my supervisor is phenomenal about bringing colleges in front of her students so that they're, they're seeing all these things that are out there.

And. And I'm going to do my level best to get this video up today because it's November. And what a lot of students don't realize is that November of their junior year is when some of these scholarships are getting lined up and passed out. And so like these RIT scholarships your teacher needs to nominate you for some of these your junior year.

And if students don't know about that or schools don't know about that, or teachers don't know about that, then that's not happening. And then these students are missing out on that money. So that's time. It's time for the juniors to really be paying attention to their list. And so RIT was one that I learned about.

And then I don't, this is another one that I really loved the Rose Rose Holman. I don't know if you're familiar with them there in Indiana, . And they have like on their stats on here, their average starting salary for their graduates is almost 80, 000. They have a 99 percent placement rate.

So they know what 100 percent of their students are doing six months after graduation and 100 percent of their students receive financial aid. So they've got money to give out. There's,

Tom: Is that a scholarship or is that a school?

Christine: They're in Indiana. It's a school. It's a school, Rose Hulman. So what the, I wrote it down, what the admissions officer said, but it says on the back of here they're consistently recognized for its career placement and return on investment.

So he said. We're a high cost school, but we make sure you get that return on that investment as soon as you graduate. And that's a hundred percent of their students are employed six months. That's their, that's the

Tom: ROI to the ROE.

Christine: Yeah. Um. So this was a really cool school.

The Princeton Review gave a top 10 best schools for internships. They've got students doing internships at all the big companies Tesla and Google and Microsoft and Honda and, Ball Aerospace, Rolls Royce, Apple, I mean it's crazy what they're, what some of these schools are out there doing in their schools that people have never heard of.

Tom: Exactly. Exactly.

Christine: And that's what you've been telling me all along.

Tom: Preaching to the choir. The choir is always going to say that yes, there is those that everybody reads about, but then there's Hundreds of others that are there to be lifted under the rock

Christine: and I got to meet so many of those schools and one school came in.

It was a school here in Virginia and said just come visit us. And as soon as you, as soon as you do our official visit, we'll give you 1, 000 in scholarship if you end up coming here.

Tom: That's a good mark.

Christine: Like just things like that we want you to come see how great it is on our campus.

Tom: Yeah, that's the 1, 000 incentive to apply to visit the question that the student, the consumer should always ask is that going to be renewable because those are many times one time. So they're like the guy, they're like the scholarships that are given out at high school graduation where they're one time.

Historically known as pizza and beer scholarships or to buy a computer or something that you're going to need during the summer. But yes, it's an incentive for the student and helps them with some motivation and helps them look in the parent look in a different direction. I'm out of school.

I had a, I have a student that from the massive list that we worked on, he applied to one and you get a 25, 000 scholarship on an annual basis. And, he's giddy because not only the money, but it's different than everybody else. So when he comes, he's going to not only separate himself from being a student from a different territory, and that will help him grow.

It might put a little pressure on them to, defend the Red Sox or the Patriots. But that's part of immersing yourself in a different area that is good for you. All right. If it's an area that's not going to be good for you, then that's another thing. So it's important to look beyond the U.

S. news and report listings of the top schools in the country.

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. I agree a hundred percent. And you've been talking about that all along and I I agree with you and I want, it's time for the juniors to start looking at these schools, start looking at what's around them.

Tom: When we're working with kids, I'm not an expert, you talk about what your academic interest is, I always say don't think about the major 'cause that's a box that you're gonna be put in and what your hobbies are, because sometimes your hobbies are really behind the academic interest, and that's where you find some of the underlining schools.

Like SUNY Alfred is a school in, in, in Al suny, one of the SUNY Alfred schools. That is great from a an automobile side of the coin. And a lot of people don't know it. Yes, it's in a remote area of New York, there's 100 inches of snow, 10 months out of the year, but college kids don't care about that.

Parents do, and then there's the alternatives that aren't four year schools that are the two year programs. Yeah, we got to help them. Our job is to help them figure out the big picture. And right now, for my juniors, what I'm having them do. is go take advantage of going to schools and just observing them.

Don't go on an information tour, don't go on a physical tour until the spring as you start looking at schools, but just take the time with your parents to go and check out a big one, a little one, something's two hours away, something that's right next door, because I continue to struggle with students who have no concept.

of size, distance, and setting. And when you try to talk about that, you waste a month's worth of analysis of a college list or more that I'm holding off till, until January to start doing with my clients until they have some sense of understanding about what these mean. So in my area, take a ride to UMass Amherst.

You physically go into a valley, the way it's structured, you go into a valley and it's like this. Disney experience, or Wizard of Oz experience. And just, I was telling a student and their parents yesterday, just look around first, park the car, make sure you're not going to get a ticket. Talk to the attendant at the gate.

They're the best salespeople. All right, and just experience it and then go, to an asphalt school. So when it's time to have an understanding or an idea of what you want, you've got some exposure.

Christine: Exactly. I had a student a couple years ago who had, her big long list of schools. And. One of the schools on there was Wake Forest and she went for a visit and came back and said, no, that's out.

It's too small. Like she had no idea. It's one thing for me to tell him, okay, here's how many undergraduates are on campus. I give them those numbers. But when they go to the campus and they see it, like you're telling them to do that's how they start identifying what it is that they're looking for.

She wanted a big school. She ended up at LSU and that's it. She's thriving there and it's a perfect fit for her, but that smaller school was, she didn't understand the numbers until she saw, the size distance setting that you're talking about and actually went there and the other struggle that I have with students as they start this.

juniors as they're starting the tours is you're not going to tour. You're not making your, you're not going with your parents. Okay. I'm going to go to this college. That's not the point of the tour. The point of the tour is as you're saying, just go to observe, go, you're, it's just fact-finding.

Tom: They have no concept and granted there are 16, 17, 18, even sometimes 19. They have no concept about making a huge purchase like this, maybe they went with their father or mother to look at cars and, walk the dealership and that kind of thing. But there's no concept on how to evaluate.

So yeah, you don't want to fall in love with the first school. You don't want to fall in love with the first 10 schools and that's an important part of it. So get some exposure, and then start. The process, or at least the way I try to handle it is then start the process of, evaluating going and visit.

I asked students to go and do a physical visit of four different types of schools so that they can do comparisons virtually. But then the ones they can't get to, yeah, and they have

Christine: four different schools, really, they have those four different schools somewhere nearby where they live, where they reasonably get to.

Tom: You can throw a rock at them within an hour, if not stay overnight, it'll be fun. Go with your siblings and share the same bathroom versus what you've been doing for the last 18 years, you know, I'm curious that during your experience, how much conversation was about the subject of paying for school.

Christine: The high school that I was at is it's, it was a small private school.

So they're really growing, but they're growing from the younger grades. but one of the students did have a situation, a family situation. And so the whole pain for college is really super important for this student. And so there was quite a bit of conversation about that. And that's, that was the that's why there was all of this push to find, like the RITs out there that are going to offer scholarships and apply for those scholarships and get those, get those moving that, that had, that didn't happen this year because they've already been awarded those scholarships.

Cause that happens during the junior year. But she was really on that and I was really happy to see that. And there was there's, it's even in a private school where there's parents paying tuition for the students to be in the school. There's still, I still saw a lot of variables, like some of the children, their parents were divorced and college was, or was not negotiated in the divorce decree, or there was.

An international student who is not a U S citizen. So has a different, a whole different can of worms to wrestle in this process. If he wants to go to school in this country which he does and he was fascinating. He speaks three languages and he told me that he doesn't think with words. And it was the most interesting conversation and that was another big takeaway for me is it's really humbling to work with students because they're so amazing.

They're just so amazing.

Tom: Yes, and they're so different.

Christine: And they're so resilient.

Tom: Yeah, they need to be. They need to be. Because there's a lot of, as there's a lot of struggle in the household. There's a lot of misunderstanding. It's such an emotional process. I count myself very blessed to be able to get exposed to some of these families and have some sense Of help in their direction and their path, I have a student this year who Just at the beginning within the last 45 days, transferred from her high school to another one.

And that was a little, okay I'm nimble. We'll roll up the punches, chameleon type of thing. But, as I, as we talked offline I said to her, why now? What held you up? I didn't want to disappoint my parents. I didn't want to disappoint myself. And she's gone from my earlier engagements with her as a very shy, reserved, almost embarrassed individual to someone who now is like blossoms into a whole new person.

Christine: Wow.

Tom: It's damn, where was the underlining support to help you. It wasn't there.

Christine: Yeah, I think we've talked about before I haven't, I have a student as well who's had to change high schools his senior year. And That whole situation has made him everything that he has said to me is that it's been such a great thing for him because he's more thoughtful about cultivating friend groups and activities and things like that.

Tom: And as you move forward, I would definitely encourage you to spend as much time as possible with him.

On the paying side to introduce that into your families, no matter how affluent they may be, or think they may be, and it's not going to always be about scholarships. It's going to be about, in some cases, protecting your credit. So you can be a cosigner on a private loan if you need to. And as I preached before and talk about it in great detail.

It has to go hand in hand.

Christine: Yes.

Tom: It sounds wonderful to find, select and enroll and pay from a marketing standpoint, but it should really be pay fine and then select, it's got to be, it's got to be front and center. I do find it interesting and sometimes parents who I really get to know, they don't want to tell me what their finances are, and that's okay.

So let's find you a financial planner that you can trust and work with, and then collectively we'll be a team of three. To help them move forward, but

Christine: to make sure that you can swing this and you know that was a that was always a big conversation with me with students is, Stanford and MIT aren't going anywhere.

And if it's possible that you have a graduate degree in your future, that might be an option at that time, because when you start looking at the numbers and what you're going to have, and again, I'm trying to keep it all back to paying for college, not financial aid. I don't talk about financial aid.

I talk about "paying for college" because the return on the investment is, do you want a 300, 000 sweatshirt? Off the rack, or do you want one that's a little bit more tailored that's a you know that fits in with your budget and what you want to pay. And, ultimately, I think that students, they there's not just one college out there for any student, there's lots of places where they could go and thrive.

Tom: And the cost can be much different, as we've talked. Based on how well that school is doing, filling their seats, and it's not reflective, it's not intended to be reflected on the quality of the education of the faculty. All right, it's just that they're not getting the drawer and they're not filling it, just like other industries.

We need multiple car dealerships, we need multiple hotels, so people have choice based on what they like, what they're comfortable with, and the cost associated with it. Yeah, we'd all love to be in a JW Marriott every time, but we're not going to pay 600 a night for a room, when we can also go to a Marriott and pay 200, or a courtyard and pay 100.

But students don't understand that.

Christine: Yeah, depending on what it is that we're looking for. Yeah. But you're right, students don't have the concept of making that kind of huge purchase.

Tom: They do understand how to be in line for Taylor Swift tickets. They do understand how to be in line for sporting events, so I spend more time now using those analogies than, an adult analogy.

I'll save them for their parents. But how did you do purchasing your Taylor Swift tickets? I got boxed out because there's so many who were applying. So many were trying to get them. Exactly. You know what? Here's a hundred schools that everybody wants to go to, but they get more applications than they have seats for.

And yes, everybody's a 4. 0. They're not all high flyers like the one you mentioned, okay? But their profile looks the same.

Christine: And very good.

Tom: Yeah, it's outstanding, okay? But you're competing against numbers. You're competing against the similar profiles. So why not find a couple schools where your high flying will get you a full load, but that means you got to go through a different level of institutions. That's why we get to do it too.

Christine: And widen your lens with your searches too. Yeah.

Tom: Yeah. Now you wouldn't experience it at the school you went to and worked with, and that's, I hope it doesn't change. One of my challenges is, or angst, is that some school systems are still giving out the same list of schools to every student, with all due respect, if anyone's listening, because it's potentially easier.

It looks good if you can get applicants in there. It's great for all those little dots that go on the score or the Naviance status systems that everybody seems to want to look at that doesn't quite on my mind. Okay. So yeah, you got to widen that lens.

Christine: Yeah. So that is a, that, that is a

Tom: a challenge.

It's

Christine: something that we work with.

Tom: Yeah. I'm glad you've experienced a good opportunity. You've got a little bit, obviously you've got a lot more of a well rounded knowledge and approach. You can hang out a different shingle

or expand it. Or

Christine: quit. Or quit because every November I go through the struggle of do I want to go, it's like you go through it as a parent. And it's grueling. And then I just keep signing up to go through it because by the time these kids are, I'm invested in these kids, they become my kids.

I'm, it's I'm a teacher and this is my classroom. These are my students and I'm

Tom: really

Christine: invested in them. And you go through this every year, and every year, I don't know if you do, but every November, I'm like, Oh, can I do this another year?

Tom: I still have a few that I'm working with, so it doesn't end until maybe December, but.

Christine: Yeah, I still have December and January deadlines as well, but,

Tom: yeah, you're right. Do you want to put out, you want to put the notice out to start a group to start attracting your juniors? To walk the walk again to deal with them. I think that if you if I think from what I've gotten to know about you.

Yes, you will. It's an opportunity to perfect every student I meet changes some of the things I do for all of them, which is what gives me a different way to reevaluate. My process, this year I'm changing it. I'm not going to be really getting it going until January. We have a pre college free.

We have a fall 2024 litany of activities students can be doing. They took their PSATs. They should be out walking the campuses to get to know them. They should be competing, I'm working with them to create their resume. They should be really looking at their course schedule and making sure it's as challenging as they can be extracurricular activities.

So there's a lot of things they can do right now. As we turn the new year to really get into it, but I'm going to continue not, but I'm going to continue, front and center. You got to meet people. You got to get out there, yes, you're going to get a shitload of mail from the buyers of the list on the PSATs.

And, from all the services that are out there, but they don't know you for Adam. So we got to start meeting. You can't do that with 100 schools. You so for me, yeah. And I just tried to, I just try not to get invested to the point where I'm crying with the kids.

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I, I heard your, I heard there were so many times when I was doing things and I heard phrases of yours in my head,

Tom: like a

Christine: realistic assessment, a realistic assessment. And and paying for college.

Tom: Yeah. But the other part of this, Christine, is it's also a battle for us. All right. We're small business owners. We're not big box companies. And the big box companies, I spoke to a woman yesterday at a networking group meeting I went to, and Tom, I wish I hadn't known you before.

The classic statement that you hate to hear, , my marketing and my social media is terrible. That's why they're not hearing me. But she's dealing with an organization. Every time her student talks to someone, it's different. different person, different advisor. There's no continuity. So part of it is too, is hammering, continuing to hammer the difference between, the individual practitioner slash advisor and those that have more money than God to do the marketing and advertising that, sometimes causes parents to fall into a different trap.

You like to buy groceries at the small market and sometimes you like to go to BJ's. We have to understand the difference in the services you're going to get

Christine: exactly

Tom: and that's a business challenge for us Which sometimes gets you to the point where I've done enough. I'm not doing this anymore You know back in my mind, I'd love to be a nonprofit you know you can supposedly get some of the benefits of a nonprofit but I think your personality and your passion is going to keep you saying in November, yes, I'll keep going.

Christine: Yeah, I know that I'm going to keep going. I know that I'm going to keep going. And it's gotten better. November 1 was just, this year was just a, it was especially stressful. Our country was stressed. are, I had the practicum, I had my independent students, I had the students from the practicum, there was just so much.

And then, and then I have some family stuff going on. So when you're just getting hit from all sides, everywhere you turn, it's just a really stressful time.

Tom: I'm glad you survived.

Christine: Yeah.

Tom: Yeah. And some of that will go away next year and we'll have a different approach to different things.

Yeah. In fact, maybe you'll see a job posting in, in, Take a job as a counselor in a high school,

Christine: I've been looking at some of those. I've been looking at some of those because they're out there. I'm not sure. That's for me,

Tom: Maybe going as an associate or you're probably going at assistant level because you.

Most colleges want you to move up the rank, so to speak, but maybe there's a college that needs your

Christine: talent. I've been looking at those too. So those are out there. Those are all It's interesting because as an instructor, when I was teaching writing I worked with middle school, high school, and adults.

And I preferred the adults when I was teaching. But in this work, I'm really fond of these high school kids.

Tom: How can you not be? If they're willing to develop a relationship with you to help them move the dime forward, and not only does it help them, it helps their relationship with their parents, which I think is an enormous service that's underlying service that we offer.

Does that household harmony then yeah, no matter how much they frustrate you. I've got one that's frustrating me to the point where I almost sent a note to her mom and her father that I'm done but I would never do that,

They, my population, they cover the gamut from the standpoint of their economic, their socioeconomic side.

They cover the gamut of the high flyers to the strugglers, to the one that I told at the very beginning our relationship, you can look for colleges, but I think in the very end community college is going to be your path. And she's going to go to community college, which, is a very emotional thing, very troubling thing to be able to go back into the school and say I'm going to community college when everybody's going off.

And, I have a certificate that I send when they're ready to pick their school, I made hers extra large. I got a big envelope and I mailed it to her a couple days ago, because they need that kind of recognition. Yeah. That's the beauty of having a diverse group of families.

I couldn't work as some admissions advisors do with just a certain threshold of the population.

Christine: Yeah, I, I don't either I have a mix and one of my students actually came to me this year saying, I want to go to community college, and this was something that I learned from you and working with the students.

He wants to go to community college because he wants to continue playing his sport. And so the compromise we made and getting him over that November 1 deadline was tough because in his mind, he didn't need to meet that deadline. He could just keep putting it off because, he wasn't sure that he needed to do that.

But what I wanted him to do was To have his acceptance at in hand at the school that if he got in, if he could go play there, he would go there to play, but at least get your acceptance letter in hand. When you go talk to the coach. Because he had a really good academic record.

Tom: Division three school?

Okay, yeah. To

Christine: be determined, I don't know what the outcome is going to be. We don't have any outcomes yet. Some of my students have started to get some acceptances, but the ones that, the ones that we're really on pins and needles for, none of those have started coming in yet.

Tom: So they'll be.

Christine: Be December at least, I think.

Tom: Yeah, all the elite and highly competitive, they're not going to do theirs until, the 15th, close to it or thereafter. They should by right, if they're a CSS profile school, they should by right be making a financial offer at the same time. But many of them are waiting until the FAFSA.

Which is really immaterial, because they already know if the kid's going to get a Pell Grant based on their income or, and everybody gets a student loan, so that's a little bit of an aggravation from my perspective. But yeah schools that need students, they're going to be accepting students as quickly as possible.

I know many schools. And it does cause, the delay to be how are we going to decide? Then your work can be okay. Let's compare.

Christine: Yeah. Compare. And I think the other piece of the puzzle is, the self confidence.

Tom: Yeah, once you get your first one and you hang it on the refrigerator, I'm going to college.

It doesn't mean that it's the one I'm going to pick, but yeah, you're going and it quiets everybody's questions at Thanksgiving and Christmas. From the relatives and the friends. I remember when my kids were going, they come in the house, the first thing they say to one of the kids, where are you going to go and point to the refrigerator.

The relative doesn't know that's the final pick. And it just quiets it, it brings down the whole anxiety and stress and that's important. Yeah, having those out there. If you pick for every student. And for every student, if you pick one school that is 100 percent shoo in and they apply, that's for the purpose of the refrigerator.

Christine: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: Because chances are they're going to get picked before Thanksgiving, they're coming in now and the others will come in later and then it's a matter of, okay, let's really start doing it. Now you got to go back and visit again. Now you got to really kick the tires, kids don't understand that phrase, but you got to, you got to kick the tires and understand, is this the place that's going to be for you for my five say yes, my five say yes, academic, social, personal, affordable, and set you on a career path.

So we can talk about that more if you want.

Christine: Yeah. Maybe we should talk about those five next time.

Tom: Yeah, I like that. Because everybody that gets accepted, to me, in my mind, that's the next thing that we're evaluating.

Christine: And that'll be timely because those acceptance letters are going to start to come in.

Tom: And you do that through the winter, you do it through the spring before you pull the trigger.

Christine: Yeah,

Tom: I'm not sure a high flying the one athlete who has to commit earlier. And they're very,

Christine: and I actually had one of those one year he was signed up to take my essay course over the summer and Nebraska signed him to play football.

And it's so fun to watch him play football, You don't need me for his essay anymore, but but he's still doing the work out there.

Tom: You got him to that point, yeah. Good. So we're back in a couple of weeks.

Christine: Yep. We're back on track. And I'm excited to, to get this one together and get it up and I still have the backlog.

I haven't lost anything. I just maybe I'll post those over the holidays during the downtime,

Tom: but I've been a busy person, so it's good to reconnect and let's keep on chatting.

Christine: Yeah. Nice to see you. And I'll see you again in a couple of weeks.

Tom: All right. Be good.

Christine: Okay. You too. See you. Bye. Bye.